In This Episode

• Using the MAP Method for complex chronic conditions like CFS, MCAS, chronic Lyme and autoimmunity.
• How the MAP Method differs from psychotherapy, EMDR and brainspotting.
• Why Cathy refers patients for MAP Method sessions.

Show Notes

Join me for episode 33 where we talk with Cathy Moore, a functional medicine Physician Assistant specializing in chronic health issues including Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Mast Cell Activation syndrome (MCAS), chronic Lyme and autoimmune conditions. She practices at One Agora Integrative Health Clinic in Bloomington, Minnesota. 

Hear about her experience with the MAP Method and why she finds it useful to refer patients for MAP sessions. Listen until the end to learn how the MAP Method differs from psychotherapy, EMDR and brainspotting.

In this episode we discuss:

• How Cathy Moore discovered the MAP Method™.
• How the field of Psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) and the work of Candace Pert, Ph.D. supports the connection between emotions and the immune and endocrine systems.
• Her personal experience with the MAP Method and how it compares with EMDR, EFT, tapping, or brainspotting.
• The top 3 reasons people with complex chronic conditions get stuck in their healing process.
• Why she recommends the MAP Method for her patients.
• Results Cathy has seen in her patients as a result of MAP for chronic fatigue, impaired detoxification, sleep issues, anxiety, addictions, and multiple traumas.

Don’t miss episode 30 for a discussion of how trauma impacts chronic health risks and episode 31 for Frequently Asked Questions about the MAP Method. For more information about Cathy Moore's practice or to schedule a consultation with her, please visit One Agora.

Transcript

**Please note: Transcript created by AI, accuracy not guaranteed.**

[Music]

Welcome to the Flourish with Functional Nutrition podcast. I'm your host, Madeleine Lowry, founder of Twin Cities Nutritional Therapy and a nutritional therapy and a MAP Method practitioner, specializing in chronic digestive issues, allergies, sensitivities, chronic fatigue,

chronic pain, and eating disorders.

Join me for episode 33 where we talk with Cathy Moore, a functional medicine physician assistant, specializing in complex chronic health issues, including chronic fatigue syndrome,

mast cell activation syndrome, chronic Lyme, and autoimmune conditions. She practices at One Agora, integrative health clinic in Bloomington, Minnesota.

Hear about her experience with the MAP Method, and why she finds it useful to refer patients for MAP sessions. Please listen until the end to learn how the MAP Method differs from psychotherapy. As always we must disclaim that the information we share in the podcast is for educational purposes only. As MAP Method practitioners, we do not diagnose or treat disease and we recommend working with a qualified practitioner.

Now let's talk with Cathy.

All right, so welcome Cathy. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. Cathy and I met, oh I don't know maybe a year or two ago, Cathy came to one of my workshops where I was teaching a basic method for allergy and sensitivity elimination and Cathy and I met there and have been friends ever since.

So Cathy welcome. Why don't you start up by telling us a little bit about your practice and what you like to specialize in? Sure, thank you Madeleine. It's such an honor to be here with you and to be getting the word out about MAP therapy and I.... it's a pleasure to be here.

So I I am super blessed because I get to work in a multi-disciplinary practice. I work with another nurse practitioner. We have some chiropractor, acupuncturist, those that do body work and massage therapy with frequency-specific microcurrent. We have skin care specialists and we also offer neurofeedback and IV therapy. We have medical laser therapy, low dose immunotherapy and we do craniobiotic techniques. So we have a wide variety of things that we can do in our practice that really help patients to get well and I personally have I have a history in women's health background.

In the 90s I I served as a missionary midwife overseas and then I went on to the University of Washington medical program for their physician assistant studies. So when I graduated I worked in surgery for a couple years and then for the you know then I did ER work for about 10 years.

However 12 years ago I took a a nose dive into holistic and functional medicine and so now I mainly specialize in complex chronic illness in treating you know chronic fatigue syndrome, those with Lyme disease or Mold toxicity, Mast Cell... Syndrome. I deal with a lot of just different

gut issues like SIBO, intestinal bacterial overgrowth, a lot of autoimmunity, lupus and Hashimoto's and since my roots are more in women's health I really enjoy also balancing hormones naturally and also use some bio identical hormone therapy.

Wow Cathy do you want to mention the name of your practice and where it's located? Yeah sure. Yeah so I work at One Agora Health in Bloomington, Minnesota. Just south of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis.

Yeah. Yes. Cathy tell me tell me how you learned about the MAP Method. I'm laughing here because I know exactly how you learned about the MAP Method.

Yeah so I well of course I learned it from you and after we became friends after I took one of your courses you know I had prior to that tried so many different methods to try to help patients and and also in large help myself to really get on an avenue in a path in which our bodies were

optimally functioning probably about 10 years ago.

I was looking at how the mind and the body and emotions and how they affected the body

and through my research I discovered psychoneuroimmunology and found out that there were lots of researchers you know since the 70s that were discovering links between how emotions were affecting the immune system. And then in the 80s in which they found that it wasn't just,

it wasn't just emotions that can affect the mind that can affect the the immune system but that the nervous system is involved with that too.

And so through all these different research I kept reading about was just I was just amazed at how they had already discovered that you know like David Fulton in the 80s had discovered how there were nerves actually on the thymus and the spleen and that there was terminating from those vessels where clusters of lymphocytes and macrophages and mass cells all of which helped to control immune function.

And I was like gosh that's so fascinating how our bodies are wired in such a way and how the different studies that they did was using these rats and invoking different modalities on them to be able to get an immune response and that triggered their nervous system.

So like Candace Pert in the 80s then she she was this neuropharmacologist from Georgetown University. She found that there were neuro peptide specific receptors present on the cell walls of both the brain and the immune system. And so her discovery with those neuro peptides and neurotransmitters acting upon the the immune system showed their close association with emotions and you know ultimately suggest the mechanism through which emotions from our limbic system and our immunology are are just deeply interdependent.

And so I just find that with what I've seen in clinical practice how you know the immune system and the endocrine system are modulated not just by the brain. We used to think that it was the brain that was turning those all on but it's also by our central nervous system itself.

And so I had found the study by Kaiser you know that Kaiser Permanente did about the ACEs study the adverse childhood events so you're familiar with that Madeleine right? Yes. Yeah and how that study showed how anything that happened or didn't happen in childhood how that affects your mitochondrial function and your longevity ultimately.

So I dove deep into looking at that and then read Steven Porges' book about the vagal nerve and how we need to activate the vagal nerve and that gut brain connection. And then I discovered about Annie Hopper and the DNRS system and the dynamic neural retraining system that helps to

retrain the brain in its response to different triggers.

And I've experienced and went through and they have done EMDR and brain spotting and EFT I mean there's so many different modalities out there. And when you and I got to talking and like you know I've tried all of those things myself because there isn't anything that I would offer as a modality or a therapy or healing for a patient that I haven't tried myself.

And you started talking about this MAP training that you were going through. You showed with me some videos and and I just was so fascinated about not only the the method itself but also just the research that had already been done using the QEEG research during a session was just fascinating to me. So I was like I need to know more about this.

You've just gone through a litany of things that I think we both have sort of glommed on to and I love that you talked about psychoneuroimmunology and the addition of the endocrine system also to that complex. I just spoke about that in my last podcast. Also I spoke about the ACEs study.

These you know these and you know Annie Hopper's work, Stephen Porges's work all of this kind of adds up to a growing picture, growing interest in the role of the brain combined with the nervous system, the immune system and the endocrine system as one super system that is instrumental in running the body, the brain and the body. We understand to be one now right.

We talk a lot about the mind body and the synergies between the mind and the body but there's still a gap I feel certainly in Western trained medical settings but also in alternative medicine settings really understanding how tight that integration is and when there is there are we can call them unconscious stressors on the subconscious mind that this can have an effect on your health and this is something that I see all the time with MAP sessions.

So you know if you wouldn't mind sharing what your experience has been with MAP sessions and you know what is it so you saw the videos you heard about it for me then you you experienced some sessions and you know what about those sessions convinced you that there was something really here?

I initially had an appointment with Collette the founder and just did a session with her and

she's like just pick something that is more of like a phobia or you know something that you want to work through and I had picked an issue that I was having a problem with my emotional response to one of my children and she's like well that's not really like what she says he was sort of was it wasn't really like a phobia or like a quick thing but she's like let's just see what will happen.

And it was really interesting during the session there was almost like you know it was just listening to her questions and her prompts and what I find interesting during these sessions is that it's almost like there's like this roladex in my mind and all of a sudden there'll be like thousands of pages turned in that roladex of different memories and sometimes I can catch what they are and sometimes I don't and I don't think it really matters. But what I found was that the actual event of me and my emotional reaction to my child wasn't necessarily a her thing or you know of that me responding to her but that it had to do with how I was responded to when I was a little girl. So

it took me completely back to my childhood and recognizing that that pattern of response when I was a child was actually what I was putting on to my daughter in my reactions and responses to her. That was really profound to me that within, and by the time that we even got to the session because I was talking to so much about the method, we only had 20 minutes so this was all unveiled within like 20 minutes.

So the emotional reaction and responses that I was having with my daughter didn't didn't even exist anymore so that when events or series events would lead up to how it would normally respond there was just such a different response that came out of me. And this reaction was, this response was just immediate. I hadn't really ever experienced that through other modalities that I had gotten therapy with like EMDR or even you know brain spotting or other things that it was just so immediate in my, in the reaction. So that's kind of what was the hook line and sinker for me to be like okay I need to do more of these and I need to figure out more of like how does this work so that I can offer this to my patients because it was just it's just really profound and how immediate it was.

So we like to say that the MAP method is is a quantum leap over EFT or tapping or EMDR. You know, those are methods that were created in the 80s the 90s and while they are effective the MAP method just takes it to another level completely-- very gentle, very fast-- and and we like to say it's painless. Right so you don't have to live you don't have to relive painful traumatic memories. In some cases you may, we may ask you to bring to mind just a little bit just so that we can have the memory in the active experience and the superconscious can work on it, but you don't have to relive anything that you don't want to. It's still very effective.

Also the superconscious doesn't show you everything that we're neutralizing so it's also like if someone is a is afraid if they feel like oh you know I always wondered if I was abused as a child or something it's not like you have to, you're going to be peering into this window and seeing every memory that's being neutralized. No it just happens.

It's very rapid some people experience it as like dizziness or lightheadedness maybe a tingling in their head, other people experience it like REM eye movements. But this is the experience of processing and with the MAP Method you know I should explain we are targeting not just the one memory that you're focusing on but every associated memory to that memory, so typically it's every associated memory with a similar emotional signature that's related to that topic to that response to that experience or to that subject.

Cathy I'm really curious about -- you know you said I have to learn more I have to learn more about how this works so I canoffer it to my patients and do you feel like you have an understanding now about how it how it works? And do you feel like you're pretty comfortable in explaining this to your patients and referring them for MAP sessions?

Yeah definitely so my utmost desire is for all of my patients is to really find the root cause and you know irregardless of what they show up with, I explain to them that we are ultimately designed as a triune being. You know we have our spirit an emotional realm, we have our mind, and then we have our body. And I explain it to my patients that our our spirit and emotions operate at the highest frequency and vibration and when something happens in that realm it affects our mind and how we think and and how our subconscious will respond in different situations.

And then oftentimes if those emotions and how we process those emotions don't clear out of our body or we didn't have a safe place to process those then those emotions get stuck in our body and then we end up with physical symptoms. And so our body then is giving us a warning that we need to deal with something. And so I believe that those emotions in order for a patient to be able to operate in the optimum wellness for their well-being like those emotions need to be cleared out of those cells, and out of those tissues, out of those organ systems in which they had caused dysfunction.

And I'm not saying that the underpinning of all diseases is that you're a head case and you got some sort of emotional issue that's not it at all but with even going back to like the neuropsychoimmuneology we understand that there is an emotion I believe at the core of all illness. And so when you know so when I explain to patients about what this is and why I'm recommending that they go visit with you is because there's a stuck there's something there's a disconnection. And that's you know these patients they come in and they're doing everything right: their diet is pristine, they're exercising, they're getting good sleep, they're taking supplements, they're you know getting outside, they're they're practicing meditation, but yet they're still stuck in their health journey.

I will find that there are mainly three reasons why the body isn't healing. Number one it's either they have some underlying mold toxicity and that the triggering their immune system that maybe that wasn't something that was initially discovered on their initial intake they have or sometimes I'll bring sometimes with mold toxicity sometimes I'll bring that up. That you know could there potentially be that you're working in a water damaged building or that there's been a leak in the house that hasn't been discovered. But many patients don't want to go down that road because that's a huge expense and it's also very emotional in that case but that's their right, fine.

The main three reasons why the body isn't healing is there's mold toxicity, underlying cavitations which are it's like some part of the bone is dying in the jaw bone that comes from either a root canal tooth or some sort of wisdom tooth that was removed but the peridontal ligament was left behind and that creates bacterial growth that affects the jaw and that can really have an underlying immunological burden on the body, and then thirdly it's some sort of emotional trauma that wasn't dealt with.

So when I look at the person who's come you know any person that's come in to see me that's what I tell them. I'm like look at we have to get to the root issue and I can ask them a few questions in regards to you know they're past, their upbringing, and did they feel safe and secure growing up. And tell me about your childhood and usually that will reveal some sort of pattern in which you can lead to well why they ended up with some sort of autoimmune issue.

You know oftentimes I find that with autoimmunity there's this underlying life theme of I'm I'm not good enough or I'm not enough andI find that MAP there be does such a beautiful job in bringing that to the surface. To really be able to deal with those underlying emotional underpinnings which will set the cells in the organ systems free to be able to optimize and be in such a state of health and vitality. Where those emotions will cause that organ system to shut down and not work in function very well.

Well yeah, beautifully said. You have a different way of explaining it but I love the way you go

through that in your explanation of root causes. I think it's really important that people understand that their emotional life is not separate from their physical health and that even in the case where you don't think there's something bothering you, you're just only aware of your conscious what's going on in your conscious mind, and your conscious mind you know I keep reading research about this but the conscious mind is only about 5% of all brain activity.

The conscious mind can only handle about seven to ten bits of information per second where the unconscious mind can handle millions of bits of information per second we are processing way more with our unconscious mind than we will ever be aware of with our conscious mind. And in fact studies have shown that even when you think you make a conscious decision, the decision was made in the unconscious mind seven seconds before and then it's fed to your conscious mind.

So the unconscious mind is just this really unexplored realm and with the MAP Method we just have a perfect tool for going into the unconscious mind creating a rapport really with the unconscious mind and harnessing the power of the unconscious mind to find these root causes,

these unconscious stresses that are causing the body to be at a non optimal state of health.

And as you said when we can relieve these, when these memories are neutralized, because really that's what the MAP Method is about. It's about finding these memory structures that are affecting your health -- either mental health or physical health-- and then when we can neutralize the emotional pain around those memories then we can be free of them.  You know the memory is still there we still see the memory. We can you know we can still recall the memory but the pain around the memory is relieved now so that it feels more like, 'Well that was just something that happened to me.' But it doesn't have this extreme emotional pain associated with it and then it can become more like wisdom rather than emotional baggage that we live with.

And not only does this free anatomical structures so that they can function better but it also relieves stress, a load of stress that may have been acting on us and keeping us more in that sympathetic mode of the autonomic nervous system, which as we know when you're sympathetic dominant you're not able to carry out all the restorative functions that are needed for healing. No matter what that healing is whether it's eliminating mold or heavy metals, or dealing with immunological infections, or anything else: restoring hormone levels or neurotransmitter levels.

You know these these become projects on the back burner until the body feels like it is safe enough or the psyche feels like we are in a safe enough place that we can start to work on these projects and heal.

Cathy I wanted to see if you are you willing to share maybe some examples of situations where you've referred patients for MAP therapy and what results you've seen with them.

Yeah definitely. Well the first one that comes to the top of my head was with a patient who had a major phobia of bugs and she was not able to enjoy being outdoors and which is we all know is so important for us to be getting sunshine and breathing fresh air. And within one session she was completely free of of any kind of bug phobia. And she explained it to me and such that she was like you know: "Every time I'm outside I'm just curious about these different creatures crawling around me." And has no, it's like almost like that memory of being fearful of bugs is

not even there, or that doesn't even remember it was there. So that was just amazing!

I've had patients who I have referred to you for chronic fatigue and you know just debilitating chronic fatigue that can come from long-standing history of of any kind of virus or Lyme disease and so forth. And you know, patients that have really found restored energy and vitality and function and I think that being able to find out that it's not so much the disease process in which that their bodies have resulted in going into a fatigue syndrome, but that there was some sort of

emotion that was connected to an event or in a time and or place that caused them to believe

something about that.

And so with some of the chronic fatigue patients you know they're like newfound viewpoint on life was that you know my life is limitless. Where before when they were in that chronic fatigue realm of thinking was that they're limited. They can't do things. They can't go out. They can't go places. And so a lot of my patients have just felt like such like they found what the underlying pinning emotion that was really keeping them down and when that was clear then their energy returned which is super profound.

I mean that's such a big issue in today's world of just chronic fatigue and due to multiple different aspects. I find too that patients who have very poor detoxification like their bodies just don't detoxify well and so if they're exposed to toxicants, you know everybody's born with their their bucket of toxins that they you know inherited from their mother and father, when they were born. And depending on how toxic their mom or dad were you know that's how full their bucket is of toxins and so when you keep accumulating more toxins but the body isn't letting go of them that too I find it's not just a genetic issue with MTHFR hydropholate genetic SNP or it's not just their liver needs to be cleansed or they're having some needing some additional supplements and so forth.

There's a reason why is the body is not letting go of toxins. Why does it want to hold on to them I have found that patients who have done MAP therapy as well their detoxification of these toxins in their body accelerate and they're able to let go of those things. And those have been disconnected from their mind and body start to understand and feel what it feels to be like in their body instead of being disconnected which causes a whole host of physical and physiological issues in the body as well.

So sleep issues have been restored, you know, patients with insomnia. Anxiety lessened and

actually resolved, and as well as addictions and multiple traumas. You know I just find that anybody has gone through any kind of trauma whether physical, mental, sexual, those have a profound ability to cause dysfunction in the physical body. So many of my patients have found such relief of going through the emotional piece about it but yet not having to relive that trauma and that's what I love about MAP, is that it's such a gentle way to be able to to to neutralize those

emotions and those events which thereby allow the bodies cells and organ systems to operate as

they were designed to.

Yeah, thank you. You know those are super wonderful examples and I'm really happy to hear that  your patients have had such good results. You know often I don't hear about the results. I do the session and then they go away and I I never know you know what the result is. I always hope, I'm always very optimistic that we got to everything but you know sometimes, well often I would say, most of the time for things that are more complex patterns it takes it takes a handful of sessions you know not just one.

So I'm always happy to hear that you know people have experienced benefits from the MAP Method. And I feel very responsible for making sure that everyone has a really good experience with with MAP especially here in the Twin Cities area. I'm the only certified MAP Method practitioner currently in this state of Minnesota so I do feel like I'm kind of the emissary, right? I'm introducing this this new therapeutic modality and I want to make sure that people have a good experience and they have, you know, it's just a very positive introduction.

For those that hear about it and are not really sure about this whole emotional piece thing it feels

very just very new very speculative. I feel like there's a lot of skepticism and you know I hope that

after your patients have had one session with me that even if they're still skeptical they have the experience of, you know, what this modality is and what the experience of a session is

and how it works. Like they start to see how the dots are getting connected between you know what they come in wanting to work on, their subject for the session, and then what comes up for them during the session that we that we work on.

So each session is kind of an iterative process of feeling into something and then we ask the super conscious to treat it. The superconscious is just our name for the unconscious mind. We've promoted it from the subconscious to the superconscious because we feel that it has a lot more power. It has actually access to both the conscious and unconscious mind and we've been giving it a short shrift by calling it the subconscious as if it's less than the conscious mind.

So by working with the superconscious mind we are able to harness its power, and it does sometimes they'll bring a memory to the conscious awareness and they'll think Wow! I haven't thought about this in a long time or I had no idea this was still bothering me but it becomes very emotional for them and once we've neutralized that memory then they feel a lot lighter.

They've moved towards their goal so whatever the subject of the session is, those are

the memories those are the dots that we're connecting through each iteration of treatment until we reach a point where there's sort of this feeling of peaceful completion for that

session.

Yeah and I remember too like even in one of my sessions the... was that like I I

actually like fell asleep like in a deep sleep. I tell patients like after we've done therapies with

them in our office that sometimes you know your body is doing a deep reset and you just need to rest so please feel free to just take some time and rest and if you fall asleep, great you know. But I've I've never really felt depleted after a session where I've had some sessions in the past where

like I just I was crying so hard or just and I felt so exhausted and depleted you know where I've

never really felt that after I've never felt that after a MAP session.

 I've always felt renewed and restored and more lighter and vibrant after a session. But it's amazing to me how the body will respond in such a way. Have other clients had that experience where they've fallen asleep? 

Yeah I have seen that on several occasions where I don't know I mean I guess I wouldn't call it a

sleep, but you know, I'm not experiencing what you're experiencing. I'm just I'm just so all

these sessions are done through video conference. So I'm just observing through video conference and I'm picking up on just yes's and no's to questions that I ask about what's going on with you. So I can tell when someone's processing, when they're not processing, when they're done, if they're stuck, or where we need to go next with the session.

I I do see people go into a I don't know I guess I think of it as sort of a dormant state and it's almost like the conscious mind says or the superconscious says, you know, what we just need to put you take you down for maintenance mode you know. There's something deeper that we need to shift here and we're just going to put you into maintenance mode for a few minutes here and and then we'll bring you back. And so I've had people kind of become unresponsive for a few minutes, 12 or 15 minutes or sometimes it's the whole session.

The person will just kind of be offline and and afterwards they'll kind of wake up and they'll look at me their eyes are really big and they're like, "What was that?" You know they they were there they heard everything that I said. I usually I get some feedback from from the client after each

round of treatment just to see if anything came up for them, if any body sensations were felt, any images, any thoughts,  any other memories. And so that helps me kind of figure out where we're going next but in some cases I don't I don't get that feedback, they're just gone, and I just use my own muscle checking to figure out where we're going. And so I can conduct a whole session like this and it and it seems to work, it's just as effective.

So it's yeah it's very interesting different people experience it differently. Some people have the really deep sessions occasionally. Some people have those really deep sessions where they're kind of offline almost every time. You know we like to say that your experience with MAP is what is right for you. It's it's your experience with MAP.

Also I have come to appreciate that people who are referred to me for exactly the same

condition, so like you know I've had many people come with allergies and sensitivities. I have

had many people come with chronic fatigue or chronic pain. And with MAP because we usually get this little feedback you know what's going on in the mindscape in between treatment rounds I get to see people I get to understand like they explain to me what's going on and I get to see how

this experience was created in the subconscious mind.  And I can tell you it's it's different. It's completely different for different people because we all have different experiences.

It's a very extremely personalized process and so we can really get to the heart of the matter for you. There's no cookie cutter, there's no recipe, like oh you have chronic fatigue we do A, B, C, D, E.  No, it's really about what comes up for you in the session and we just have no plan other than we're going to figure out what the subject is, we're going to figure out what the emotional signature is of that experience for you, and then we're going to work on this until your emotional intensity around that has come down as low as we can bring it.

And that's that's really the framework for every session. It's extremely individualized, just as each of our mindscapes, I like to call it a mindscape, it's kind of a landscape of the mind, you know, are extremely individualized. As individual as we are.

I like that "mindscape" that's a good one.

Yeah you know I do and I've seen two like just with patients who they'll even tell me that ever since their sister died or you know some sort of trauma took place in their in their family they haven't been able to eat a certain food. And I've seen this time and time again of where if you were young or even as an adult and you had some sort of emotional thing and you went to go and eat something the immune system responds to that food. So being able to take a step back and look at the instead of looking at things so microscopically you take a step back and look at things three thousand feet up above and be like okay, well what what was happening during that time? What was going on during that time period in which you became sensitive to that food or started having fatigue or experienced sleep issues?

It's so amazing to be able to and such a privilege to be able to work with people and have this avenue for patients to go deeper because I don't always have time in a visit to get to those root issues. And so I'm so so very grateful to you Madeleine for what you're doing to be able to have the time with those patients to deal with that emotional piece of that triune body so that they can function better and really experience freedom in all avenues of their life.

Because I think in medicine we've done such a disservice in separating okay well if you have a gut issue go see a gastroenterologist if you have a bone issue you go see you know the bone doctor like you have all these different specialties that have divided patients. If you don't look at things in that holistic viewpoint that we're spirit, emotion, mind and body and we have to look at all of those facets in order to heal we're just missing out on the big picture of really patients getting stuck in the loop of just being dependent on their provider to help them through instead of giving them the tools they need to really truly be free, so they don't have to keep coming back.

I agree wholeheartedly and you know I think both of us have this holistic view of

health and for me you know I trained first as a nutritional therapy practitioner and this was I

mean I went through the training to solve my own health problems, but the the training process of the nutritional therapy association is very much a holistic view of health: all the systems of the

body. So as nutritional therapists we are trained to assess all the systems of the body and so

that training kind of gave me that perspective that even though a person comes in with these

health concerns you know I kind of keep that in the back of my mind, yes we we want to resolve

the skin issues or the GI issues or whatever but I'm looking at the entire picture to see which systems of the body need support.

And in doing that work it just informs me now as you know, as a MAP practitioner, because I have had that you know that perspective and so I can you know kind of bring it to this work as well. The MAP Method--I just want to say that the MAP Method even though I keep using the word therapy is not psychotherapy. I am not a psychotherapist and most people trained in the MAP Method are not psychotherapists the method was created by experimental psychologists and psychotherapists so it comes out of that tradition, and it was first developed to work with mainly emotional issues so emotional and mental issues. So things like anxiety, depression, PTSD, panic attacks, phobias those were the primary applications and most of my colleagues practice in in that space but I came to this work from a different angle you know I was already working with allergies and sensitivities.

I was learning allergy and sensitivity elimination techniques I I came to the basic

neural retraining method known as DNRS and realized how effective that was working you know it was kind of a shock you know I worked with my brain and I eliminated all of my allergies and sensitivities! Like whoa wait a second this is important! There's something here that most of us are missing and what else could would improve if we could work with the brain in an effective way? And so that's how I came you know to this advanced method of neural retraining.

So I would say the MAP Method is really about neural retraining. It's about working with memories and neutralizing the emotional pain so that the instead of being high priority in the psyche they become lower priority and they aren't running you all the time either emotionally or physically.

You know I like how you said that, Madeleine, and just how things integrate together you know with one another and I think there's... I had recently listened to what MAP even stands for is make anything possible, right?

Yeah

...and you know I think that's such a such a a wonderful way to be able to approach

life and not feeling limited but making anything possible for you and that's exactly what I've

experienced and so many of my patients have experienced with this therapy.

Thank you it's been wonderful talking with you about this. Please tell us again how we can find you, how interested patients can connect with you.

Definitely thank you so much for having me it's been such a pleasure. I work at One Agora Integrative health clinic in Bloomington, Minnesota. And the website is one the

number one spelled out: o-n-e agora .com. OneAgorahealth.com.

So wonderful to have you and I appreciate all of your insights and your experience!

Thank you Madeleine.

Thank you for joining us for the Flourish with Functional Nutrition Podcast. Please listen again and remember to follow us and leave a review on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or Stitcher.

To learn more about the MAP coaching institute please visit MAPcoachinginstitute.com

To learn about Twin Cities Nutritional Therapy or check out our podcast page visit tcnutritionaltherapy.com.

Until the next time be well and flourish.

Content of this podcast copyright 2020 by Twin Cities Nutritional Therapy, Music by Barbara Benn.

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